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W.W.L.K.D.? An Open Question For The Tea Party Types Ticked At TDW

AngryThe property tax panel headed by State Sen. Luke Kenley goes back into session today.

"The state Commission on Tax and Financing Policy resumes meeting on the property tax crisis today, shifting its focus to the issue of whether rebate checks should be swapped for credits on upcoming property tax bills to extend more immediate relief to homeowners.

"The idea of a rebate -- totaling $300 million -- was approved during this year’s legislative session. Another $250 million in tax credits was appropriated for next year.

"The commission, chaired by Sen. Luke Kenley, R-Noblesville, also will focus on the assessment system and why there have been so many complaints of disparity in property values. Critics of the current system say there are too many assessors at too many levels of government."

Meanwhile, what do Advance Indiana's Gary Welsh, Advance America's Eric Miller and a random dominatrix have in common? They or their surrogates are ticked off at TDW. (The least yours truly can do is return the favor to Gary for helping increase her blog hits on a Monday morning.)

Here's a little easy-to-remember mantra for those folks who thought dunking a Giant Bag Of Tea into the Broad Ripple Canal over the weekend would help move the property tax debate forward: W.W.L.K.D.?

That's short for "What Would Luke Kenley Do?"

TDW has long admired and respected the Republican State Senator from Noblesville for his calm way of dealing with issues. (He's right up there with Larry Borst for not losing his cool under pressure, though Borst's last name actually became a hallway verb because of the sly, cutting way he'd handle those who didn't come before his committee having done their homework.)

Kenley has been active on the property tax issue for years, proposing various solutions and trying to work across the aisle to get them passed. TDW doesn't agree with everything he's put on the table, but he's put things on the table.

And right now, like many of his legislative colleagues in both chambers, he's bringing people together to listen to and discuss more ideas.

He is not letting hysteria get the better of him.

And that's what the blogmistress can't stand about the flurry of press-motivated gatherings that have been taking place in the local media market. Sure, you're going to get your 15 minutes, but what then? Average folks tire quickly of people with bullhorns yelling about their cause du jour. Publicity stunts are cute, and then they're over.

TDW does not fault those elected officials and candidates who showed up at Saturday's event to see what was to be seen; however, what were those existing and aspiring leaders supposed to take away from the rally?

Apparently, the message was that 500 local residents are tired of paying taxes.

In other news, the sun came up this morning.

If you want to eliminate the property tax, then you'd best come up with a workable way to replace what it pays for right now.

A few people have made the argument -- in print and elsewhere -- that government ought to operate like families do with respect to their household budgets: Don't spend what you don't have. (Forget, for a moment, that lots of folks live beyond their means on credit and short-term loans.)

That's a fair argument, and we've seen elected officials from the local level on up making cuts.

But riddle TDW this: When you go to your spouse, significant other or child to talk about personal finances, do you find that it's best to scream in his or her face or to have a calm discussion about the issue at hand and how to solve it?

Something tells this little blogmistress that pitching a fit and dumping tea won't be nearly as effective in the long run as what Luke Kenley and others are doing right now.

But it sure does make for a few seconds of entertaining television on a slow news day.

Comments

A calm discussion with the person who is raping you? Thanks for the suggestion.

There you go again with the hyperbole.

There go the trolls again not understanding that it wasn't the taxes that got raised it was the ASSESSMENTS. In super hot real estate neighborhoods folks got dinged because the property values soared and we didn't do assessments every year. In neighborhoods on the fringes of development, Butler-Tarkington, Brightwood near the Monon, older homes got dinged by surrounding development pushing up the cost of real estate, even though the actual real estate value didn't increase.
No government taxing unit raised taxes 100%. It's the assessment system. It benefited business and hurt those in hot real estate areas.
The solution is complex and will take the wisdom of a Kenley. Not trolls who think that the solution to every problem is low or no taxes.

I've found that a teabag really helps when talking about finances with the wife...ifyaknowwhutimean.

OK, I'm gross.

But funny, 10:36. That counts for a lot here.

The average voter does not have direct contact with those who are in power who make the decisions. Yes we can call and email and write politely - NO ALL CAPS - No shouting - no threats - please look into the property tax issue.

But everyone in office from the Gov to the State house to the City and county officials all knew about the problem months ago - and they knew the problem was going to be bigger than first imagined.

And what did they do - nothing - until the average voter ( yes a select few to start with ) started making a ruckass.

So now are we to believe them and we should all go quietly home now and wait for them to come up with a solution ?

They did nothing till the protest started - if the protest go away - will they go back to the same old routine ?

That is what I am afraid of - if you take the pressure off they will come up some band-aid or short term solution and we will be right back here again in a few years.

Kenley and Bauer are the parties to the feeble attempt to address the problem of increasing property taxes. The one good thing is that getting actual bills has focused attention on the problem. Using income taxes to replace revenue lost from the inventory tax seems reasonable. Now that people have their property tax bills more pressure will be placed to fix the problem.

Many states use actual sales prices to set values and then adjust over time. The current and past system had many flaws in setting prices. The people most hurt are those that retired in a neighborhood that has had rapid increase in home values. This only benefits the owner if they sell.

They are right. NOTHING was done until we held those first protests on Meridian Street and the Governor's Mansion. When most of Meridian Street puts for sale signs out, that worries the politicians a lot!

Within two weeks of those protests, the Governor called for reassessments. So we accomplished something. We also got a lot of discussion going about the Fair Tax in the media and presented the Indiana Fair Tax plan to the public at the Talbott Street meeting on July 9th.

Not every person on the street (myself included) is qualified to come up with solutions to this mess, but we are all sure affected by it. And our collective voices make the politicians squirm.

Each of us has roles to play. We have people who speak, others that crunch numbers and look at policy, women who made the tea bag, and people like me who coordinate lots of volunteers, the press releases, and plan the fun!

We've got lots of demonstrations planned to take us to election day. We're committed and we will not leave the streets until we have our way. Word is that the Governor wants us there. It is our RIGHT and our DUTY to demonstrate !

This is good for The People. It's teaching them how to take control of their government and reminding them that that WE are the bosses.


You can call me every name in the book, but it is silly. It's not like I don't tell everyone I encounter I am a dominatrix. I always did. I never kept it a secret. I am proud of what I accomplished in that career. Why would I do anything that I am ashamed of and hide in a closet of fear and shame?

Obviously I have skill as a dominant...look at what I've accomplished in just a month.

There will be more than one Yard Of Shame constructed to remind voters which city councilors screwed them over without their consent and voted for the COIT!

And we'll make sure the polls (at least the ones Beth White can get open) are staffed with volunteers that provide voters with a list of every council person that voted against the wishes of The People and raised their income tax.

You should see the volunteers the flood my mailbox everyday! It's pretty exciting stuff here.

So go ahead and complain about us. Make fun of me, etc. but you won't accomplish anything by it except further alienating the people of our city who want to save it.

What do TDW and Rush Limbaugh have in common?

They both rant about style over substance while spending most of their time ignoring the actual substance.

But at least the blog has been interesting, even if I did have to google teabag as a verb.

Of course public hearings full of rants are tiring... just like reading endless posts of people ranting... it's the nature of everyone getting to chime in with the same two cents over and over.

But how about the media and the political parties doing their job to provide some substance?

Where's the Star doing some real analysis of budget numbers? They are starting to dig into data with their database features... now they need to assign some staff to actually learn the process and cover the city government in a way that does more than just react to the news of the day.

And where are the political parties in preparing some hefty white papers on the political issus and making the case for why they have the best solution?

You can't expect angry people to churn out valuable insights like a think tank would... especially when you are silly enough to provoke them to anger with a sudden spike in a required expense.

The national average for property taxes is roghly $18 per $1,000 of value... but almost nobody knows that. What they do know is that it's crazy to get a tax bill for $2,000 one year and then get a few weeks notice to come up with $4,000... espcially when they have no idea where the extra money is going.

Ok, enough of this rant!

Got a hot flash for you Melyssa - people may watch the things you're so proud of on late night television in the privacy of their own home, but they won't want their names in the same parlor conversations as yours. And, as for having skill as a dominant, well, let's just say "you get more flies with sugar ..."

If you do get more flies with sugar, then why is Jen so sour?

Check your ego at the door, Melyssa.

It's getting a little stuffy in here.

You tell me, 1:02. Either I'm sweeter than you'd care to admit, or you're a pretty dim fly.

You really think people care about my past occupation? Do you know how many evangelicals have come to my home to talk about these problems in just the last week? It would surprise you. My practice was about straightening out naughty men, NOT playing into their fantasies.

I'm sure Wilson is out in the dumpsters right now trying to dig up dirt on me. He'll probably invent something. You people don't bother with the facts. I've been living in a glass house for years. I'm used to this.

This isn't my first go round with an incompetent power hungry bitch. I've knocked a few out of the way of people they are harming and you will be no different.

This "Tax Revolt" is to do away with business taxes and pass them to the middle class families.

It seems that the elected officials feel that the wealthy and the businesses don't need to pay their fair share. After all they are doing a "public service" by financing political candidates.

Melyssa -

You are the rooster taking credit for the sun rising.

Get back to your "business" at hand.

In the words of Bob Dylan, "Don't follow leaders". The Fair Tax movement would do well to seperate from Donaghy, or at the very least look into her past a little deeper. While demanding transparancy and accountability in government, Donaghy is hoping no one will look too closely at her own validity. She still has an adult site up (www.chastitylifestyle.com)... how does a "Freedom Fighter" reconcile a freedom stance with advocating and selling male genital bondage devices?

So Hoosiers, is that the kind of person you want on YOUR front lines? I'll pass. Hopefully the Fair Tax people will find a spokesperson with a shred of credibility. Melyssa ain't it.

"This isn't my first go round with an incompetent power hungry bitch."

That's right, you were over at the Statehouse lobbying "the Flogger" last session, weren't you.

Melyssa,

Does Bill Oesterle know what you're doing from work?

You're not the first person to call me names, honey. I'd like to think you could come up with something more clever.

But please, if you want to make this about me, go right ahead. You're only making yourself look silly.

RR...they are scared, as they should be. I would be too if I were them, but then I would never insult the people to get in that position.

They've called me a racist and a prostitute and a host of other names without a shred of fact to go with it. They obviously know nothing about me or my background. They portray me on one hand as a prostitute and the other hand as an white elistist because of where I live.

I grew up poor, illigetimate daughter of a factory worker and lived in a trashy ugly neighborhood. I dreamt of one day living where I do now and worked hard to get there! Why should my hard work go to pay the way for people that don't work so hard?

The truth will win out. Just like it did in the lawsuit against me that the city finally was forced to drop. Just think, had Bart never attacked my character, I would not have studied local polictics for two years and met the people I did who are helping with this revolution.

The People are supposed to win this revolution and we will. Just watch.

CATFIGHT!!!

We seem to have slipped into All About Melyssa Mode.

For someone who's dedicated to "The People," she sure seems a little preoccupied with "The Self."

Honey, no one cares about your dispute with the Mayor, although that appears to be the source of your anger. If it makes you feel better, I don't think of you as a prostitute or a racist.

I simply don't think of you.

Ok Jen I actually agree with you on some points....funny I usually don't...hmmmmmm

nice work TDW getting the real melyssa to show through
how self absorbed can you get?
does she really work for bill osterle???

Wasn't Bill Oesterle Mitch Daniels campaign manager? No wonder Melyssa is so laudatory about the Mini-Guv and so harsh on our Mayor. She seems to be one of those Libertarians who are just closet Republicans too ashamed to admit it in public...

Seriously, if I want sob stories about poor kids from the other side of the tracks who've finally made it and are now lashing out at men because their father's were SOB's, I'll watch television. The acting's better and I can turn it off when I get bored! And now back to our regularly scheduled program - Property Tax Relief!

Melyssa works for Angie's List...

What's interesting to me is the real-life effects skyrocketing property taxes can have- they drive people of means away. Sneer at the M-K residents all you like, but if they are driven away and sell their properties, what happens? The local housing market plummets, and people of lesser means replace those who left. What happens to your tax base then?

JFK understood well that lowering tax rates meant higher returns.

It's a shame that so many of those posting here are more interested in the petty personal sniping and condescension than the policy. There is a real problem here, and people have an opportunity to fix it- or to create even larger problems. Which will it be?

If history is any indicator they will create even larger problems. And people here will be still be sniping over who's who.

Mike,

I agree with you on the real estate angle.

My parents live in Meridian Hills in a house that my great-grandparents built more than 50 years ago. When they bought it 20 years ago, it was worth far less than it is today.

Now that it's worth at least five times what they paid for it, it will be assessed at that value, which they might not be able to pay for it if they had to buy it today.

If we must be on a market-based system, and the Indiana Supremes say we must, then there need to be safeguards in place for people whose assessments go off the charts. It's one thing to know what you're getting into; it's another thing to have it happen to you unexpectedly.

That being said, if we're going to have a market-based system, people's properties need to be assessed at a fair market rate. The fact that a lot of older homes were underassessed for years doesn't mean they should remain that way.

First, let's fix the assessments on commercial and business property.

Then, let's look at ways to ease the burden on people who have seen their tax bills double or triple. (Maybe that's a credit; maybe that's a cap that spreads out the pain over a number of years.)

Finally, let's look at long-term solutions like government consolidation, bundled purchasing, cutting where cuts can be made and putting the entire process into terms Joe Taxpayer can understand.

But let's make sure we're doing it rationally. Nobody likes paying taxes, but nobody seems to want to go without roads, cops, firefighters, schools, etc.

Right, protest is ineffective. The fact is that people do not protest enough and do not fight as they should. One and done is the usual effort.

Politicians do nothing without being prompted. And the only prompt they currently have is money. Protest has to be used to counterbalance that influence in order to get their attention. When the protests fade, the interest in the problem will fade.

But protesting for protest's sake doesn't help at all.

I still can't figure out what the Tea Party's message was supposed to be.

Is that really Mel's website. It's some pretty freaky stuff...

The whois is anonymous, but is in the Northside of Indianapolis.

I'm interested in caps for spreading out the pain of large increases.

It doesn't matter anymore -why- some assessments were institutionally undervalued, but to drop the "fix" on top of current owners in a single lump sum, and without warning is a terrible way to "do" government.

For the record, our house wasn't undervalued 20+ years ago. This has just become, like Meridian Kessler, one of those desirable places to live. Could we buy somewhere else? Probably. But should we have to buy down because our property assessments have gone up. No. Especially since the only reason our assessment has gone up has much more to do with location than the actual replacement value of the house. I'm pretty sure that's what is causing the anger of the people in Meridian Kessler. They're not living in huge expensive houses, they're just in a more desirable location. Personally, I think there should be some kind of cap/credit so that rates of assessment cannot exceed rates of inflation. Or perhaps some tax incentive to renovate older homes that require much more work to keep up.

TDW - to me as an average voter - all I can do is protest. I feel that if the protests stop right now those in office will have had the heat removed from their butts and go back to do what they were doing before - slapping band-aids on the wound instead of fixing it.

If some gave me a detailed budget I could look at ( not high level stuff ) I might be able to give my 2 cents worth for whatever that is worth.

But if it is a case of do NOTHING and hope those in office fix the problem - or PROTEST and know that it will help keep the heat on - Protest it is for me.

We seem to have reached something of an impasse.

I'll admit the budget and the tax spreadsheets are hard to read and understand. (I certainly can't claim any expertise in that area.)

However, maybe you could lay out the things you for which you want your tax dollars to go as a constructive exercise.

What are you okay paying for? What do you want to see cut?

And if you can, keep it apolitical. Let's talk about services, not people.

I know it's been easy for folks to label me anti-protest and a Hater Of The Common Man, but I'm really neither.

I just don't like seeing people up in arms with no end goal.

If, for example, it's more public safety you want, what are you willing to sacrifice to have that?

This doesn't have to be an either/or debate, but there's a limited pot of money in question, and it can't pay for everything. Either the pot of money grows or some things get preference over others.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.

As I have posted many times elsewhere, the proposed budget for next year simply doesnt exist. It isnt finished yet. Last year the budget came out on August 8th - it'll come out around the same time this year. Nobody is hiding anything - the budget simply isnt done yet!

No tax money can be collected and no tax money spent unless approved by elected taxpayers representatives such as the City-County Council.

TDW - I just don't like seeing people up in arms with no end goal.

Trust me - no one is forcing these people to get up in arms. Those that do it feel that by keep on protesting until those in offcie DO come up with a solution ( Because they have the experts and know how on how it all works ) is the end goal.

What they do come up with - some will like it and some will hate it. Some will benifit from it and some will be hurt by it - that is how gov. works.

If the Mayor or CCC ask the public to come forward and tell them what shoudl be cut or moved around then great - lets hope a bunch of people show up to give an opinion.

But for now all that I can do is make sure those in office keep feeling some heat so they know they need to get the job done.

Wilson - I would LOVE to see the line item detail from LAST YEARS BUDGET just so I have a starting point for the 2008 budget.. I have seen what is on the web in PDF's but it does not go into detail as to what goes into EACH of the high level line items.

If I show over the next 6 weeks at any budget meetings will I as a person of the public get a chance to see any of that detail. Can I comment on the budgets ? Or do I have to assume that the 10-20 minutes spent talking about each department is all that is needed ?

2008 BUDGET SCHEDULE
ADMINISTRATION & FINANCE COMMITTEE
July 31, Room 260*
5:00 p.m. Soil and Water Conservation District
5:20 p.m. Channel 16/Cable Communications Agency
5:40 p.m. Indianapolis Marion County Public Improvement Bond Bank
6:00 p.m. Bond Obligations/Debt Service
6:20 p.m. Building Authority
NOTE: CONTROLLER WILL PRESENT AT BEGINNING OF EACH OF FOLLOWING
AGENCIES
August 7, Room 260
5:00 p.m. Office of the Mayor
5:20 p.m. Office of Internal Audit
5:40 p.m. Office of Corporation Counsel (City Legal)
6:00 p.m. Office of Finance and Management (Finance & Purchasing)
August 14, Room 260
5:00 p.m. City-County Council and Clerk
5:15 p.m. Department of Administration and Equal Opportunity
(Including Administrative Services, Human Resources,Equal Opportunity)
5:50 p.m. Election Board
6:10 p.m. Voter Registration
August 21, Room 260
5:00 p.m. County Recorder
5:20 p.m. County Surveyor
5:40 p.m. Office of County Auditor
6:00 p.m. County Treasurer
6:20 p.m. County Administrator and County Commissioners
August 28, Room 260
5:00 p.m. Information Services Agency/CIO’s Office
5:40 p.m. County Assessor
6:10 p.m. Township Assessors
September 4, Room 260
5:00 p.m. Review and Analysis
*New format with these agencies presenting before introduction of budget

I'd suggest calling the Controllers Office and asking about such details...

"Nobody likes paying taxes, but nobody seems to want to go without roads, cops, firefighters, schools, etc."

I could go without plenty in the schools. Swimming pools in schools is a joke. Our school did not have one, which means I am not "well rounded." I do pretty well for not being "well rounded." The classmates I had who I now to have went to and graduated Med School also seem to be doing pretty well for not being so "well rounded." We are pissing away too much money on the extras and not enough on the education. Don't even get me started on the top heavy admins on both the police and fire departments. This is not just limited to Indianapolis. Both services have unions and national organizations to push through laws/rules which cause the number of employees to increase. The reason is simple: If you make fire and police departments bigger, groups like the FOP, Int'l Assoc. of Fire Chiefs, etc. etc.. This is why the IHSAA and the ISTA want schools and school sports to be as big as possible. More money in their pocket. Want to save millions from the city budget, close the damn parks. While they will be missed, parks are not needed to provide for human life and safety.

Can you imagine the headline in the Star: "GOP calls for closing city parks!" ??? Go ahead, Greg, I dare you!

What the heck - why not go whole hog and shut down the State Parks and Forests too while you're at it? "Daniels Shutters Brown County" will be a wonderful slogan to campaign on!

Then take up the school spending with your local school board. That or let's consolidate schools too and make them more accountable to voters or the state. The way they're funded now is a shell game

Once again the anonytrolls start their homophobic cracks -- cruising parks is something closety "straight" men do. Of course, such anti-gay insulting is safely done behind false faces and fake names...

Decent folk dont say such crap therefore the trolls have to hide!

Look, I'll try to explain it one more time for those of you who insist on missing the point. My husband and I live in a house that now, in 2007, is worth about $100,000. We have always paid taxes based on a correct assessment of our house (19 years now at this location). We haven't coasted for years on an assessment of, say, $50,000, which would be an undervaluation of about 50%. We also work hard (believe it or not, wealthier people don't own the franchise on hard work). We had lots of uses for that tax money, providing for two daughters, insurance, car payments, etc, etc.. We paid our fair share and didn't bitch about it. So when we hear people who live in older, very wealth neighborhoods crying about their taxes which now, after decades of undervaluation, are finally nearer what they should have been paying all along, it's extremely galling, to put it mildly. We have been paying a big part of YOUR bills all along. You're living in giant houses which we will never be able to afford. Bully for you. So you tell me why I should care one iota that your taxes have gone up? Mine did too. The fact that you now have to pay more does not, and never will, make me sorry for you.

About that too-expensive pool at North Central: as I recall, they have a nationally-rated top swim team and program that is the pride of the school district: outstanding champions!

If you trolls want to call names, direct your insults at me, not Wilson.

"About that too-expensive pool at North Central: as I recall, they have a nationally-rated top swim team and program that is the pride of the school district: outstanding champions!"

Who cares?

It's not the purpose of a public education to turn out champion swimmers, but an educated public!

I wouldn't cut parks or public safety - that's the typical Peterson headline grabber from year-to-year and is pennies on the dollar. I'd cut other city budgets by 10%. If you've done business at the CCB you know most agencies have dead weight to cut. Then I'd demand an elimination of ALL township government. After that, an elimination of township schools into a county-wide system. Eliminate 9 school boards and consolidate overhead - I'm sure the current admin. of IPS is enough to handle the entire county. Close schools insteading of remodeling them in a IPS school district that has an ongoing future of declining enrollment. 1.5 billion to renovate schools that won't have students in them in 20 years is crazy. Then, I'd put a casino in Union Station with the proceeds to put a rail link to the airport. I'd favor a cap on the year-to-year increase in property tax and favor removing the exemptions the legislature gave on the 2% cap. To control future expenditures, I'd move the NEW cops, firemen, public employees, etc. to a 403b type plan and away from pensions.

Here's a thought. (not too pc, however it's heartfelt and not meant to be judgemental).

There seems to be a lack of awareness of the connectedness of our current needs that is promoting the increased budgetary demands satisfied by taxes.

In order to provide the ever popular "quick-fix", we identify crime as the problem and more police as the solution. Here's the rub, police don't stop crime, they investigate it and arrest the perps they catch after the fact.

What does affect crime more than "lots o' cops", is an effective education system that prepares the citizenry for gainful employment resulting in more productive members of our society. That, coupled with a healthy business climate that can offer employment is much more effective than the "after the horse is out of the barn" techniques which the public currently favors.
Thus, we return to the school situation...which has labored in recent years with exceedingly weighted demands brought about by the fed's "No Child Left Behind". In addition, a tremendous volume of children who are non-English speaking, children who speak diluted English peppered with grammatical variations deemed popular but ineffective when applied to the study of science, math and other areas of learning, the lack of funding for the extra training, personnel and resources...
Gasp...then the fed's making no exceptions to thier desire for everychild, irregardless, to be taught to the same standard for "excellence", go and make war diverting funding that should have come back to the states to pay for their illusions...
So, the kids are flunking out...the businesses go elsewhere because they can't hire illiterates to do high tech work and the unemployable commit crimes and the police work overtime. Oh yeah...and every principality wants to keep it's own identity, thus requiring the department of redundancy department, and so forth.Connect the dots folks and look at the big picture. We have a government out of control and a populace that likes to think of their own community (they all overlap now) just as they thought of their HS basketball teams. Small town pride costs a ton folks.
So, how much are we willing to be taxed for our team spirit? Have a tea party in the office of the legislators that were busy this last session worrying more about gay marriage (Pat Miller, or their praying schedule, (Brian Bosma) than about our budget crisis.

And as always, don't forget to vote.

We could eliminate school superintendents altogether. For the most part they're nothing but overweight buffoons more interested in their salaries and retirement benefits than serving the districts that hire them.

What? No mention of cutting the do-nothing bureaucrats that Bart hires? How about all those deputy mayors? How saving our money that he spends on pet political projects?

We don't have to cut services folks, we just have to cut all the waste. We don't need IMPD brass driving tricked out cars with custom paint jobs and grills. We don't need the number of deputy mayors we have either.

We don't need countless dog and pony show press conferences from the mayor.

AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY BUSINESS BORROWING MORE MONEY!

is angie's list okay wiht you being on blogs all day melyssa???

Melyssa:

Couple of questions for ya:

How many Deputy Mayors does Indianapolis have? (and, what is their salary?)

How many are required by ordinance?

How many did Goldsmith have?

How many did Hudnut have?

Lugar?

Who is driving a "tricked out car with custom paint jobs and grills?"

We'll see how you do with specifics.

I wouldn't worry too much about Melyssa. She went off the self-importance deep end yesterday.

"I wouldn't worry too much about Melyssa. She went off the self-importance deep end yesterday."

So she's swimming in the water with you?

Sank like a rock, she did.

It's all the leather and chains...

(Couldn't resist)

I'm 100% commission and a top performer. I'm paid exactly according to my performance.

I notice the Democrat Party is googling me like crazy lately. I have hidden stat counters in every web page I've published. Did I become a bonafide threat to you all, so much so that you are wasting your time googling little old me?

Welcome to Day Two of Melyssa's Radical Ego Trip, everyone.

Do not flatter yourself that it's just the Democratic Party functionaries googling for "Miss Ann". Numerous folk have heard the rumors by now and are likely checking for themselves what all the talk is about. Could it really be true? Melyssa's business is a tad unusual for the self-anointed Joan of Arc for Meridian-Kessler...

What's so unusual about being "The Voice With A Smile" for Angie's List?

Didn't they burn Joan of Arc at the stake? Some would call that a witch hunt.

I'll feed you all since you are so hungry. Here's an article written about my practice by the very liberal Democrat friendly, Julia Carson endorsing NUVO:

"Bringing dominance into the light"
NUVO - by Paul F.P. Pogue


Miss Ann speaks out on the educational opportunity provided by her media outing
The anticipation and uncertainty were the hardest parts. “I think I’ve lost 10 pounds since all this began,” Maitresse Miss Ann — her preferred name, though her birth name is Melyssa Donaghy — sighed the afternoon of Thursday, May 15.

Melyssa Donaghy (Maitresse Miss Ann), professional domina, at her Meridian-Kessler home
“The High Stress Diet. Works every time,” replied Robynn Alexander, founder of the local fetish educational organization InKink. It was a moment of grim humor during a long day, right after a WRTV-6 report outed Donaghy as a professional domina working out of her home in the Meridian-Kessler neighborhood. She spent the next several days shuttling between different locations, concerned about potential repercussions to her home, while waiting to see if the situation would settle down or explode out of control. In the meantime, Donaghy surrounded herself with supporters (“I can’t say enough good things about InKink and Mistress Moth,” she said) and prepared to wait out a storm that never quite arrived. When the situation began, Donaghy recalled seeing a church sign: “The darkest hour is often the shadow of the wing of God.” The words reassuringly fit with her own personal belief system. “The god that speaks to me in my heart is a universal god. I believe that god cares about all people, even people with deep, unexpressed needs within their own psyches,” Donaghy said. “God told me a year ago, I felt very strongly a year ago that someone was needed in this area to help guide and direct some of those lost submissives who did not have an understanding of how to direct the submissive parts of their persons in a safe way, under an intelligent and caring femme-domme guide.” In a series of interviews conducted the week following the WRTV-6 report, Donaghy discussed her lifestyle, profession and aftermath of her outing with NUVO. “Jack Rinehart sold his neighborhood out. He sold me out. This is how my family found out about what I do, seeing it on a sensationalistic news report,” Donaghy said. She said she suspected the situation began with an anonymous tip from an out-of-state individual she said was contacting Indianapolis media and law enforcement after Donaghy refused to start a business relationship with her. “I told her it’s not about money for me, it’s about my own actualization and helping subs to actualize. You’re not really offering anything positive to this world,” Donaghy said. “It was a few days after that that she basically announced to the world that she was going to destroy me.” Whatever the source, Jack Rinehart and WRTV-6 showed up on Donaghy’s doorstep May 6, asking about her profession. She refused an on-camera interview or to allow cameras inside her house, though she did allow them to record her end of an initial phone interview with a client. As a result, the only images of Donaghy in the story were images from her own Web site, The Reformatory, including a photo of herself and one of her submissives dressed in fetish gear on the Monon Trail, which she said was a one-time occasion to shoot photos for her Web site. “The point was to show a completely covered-up, totally dressed person do a perfectly ordinary thing, like take a walk,” Donaghy said. “He was more covered up than anyone else that day, including me.” In interviews and her Manifesto and Mission Statement on her Web site, she described her work as based in the psychological power exchange of dominance and submission (D/S). “I see my primary function is as an educator, and the primary subject I educate on is the subject of trust. Trust is the foundation upon which the crown of D/S rests,” Donaghy said. “It’s always the lying. Dishonesty is responsible for disintegrating every relationship that disintegrates … Sadly, our society has become full of fearful, deceitful, dishonest people. I believe our society has evolved this way because of our fear. I teach my subs to trust me. I deepen that trust every time I ask them to take my hand and trust me to walk them through their fear. And trust me, Miss Ann shows them that their fear is just smoke. Your fear starts to dissolve as your trust deepens. That is the real beauty and joy of the D/S experience.” Donaghy said she carefully complies with all laws for her business, including zoning ordinances and taxation, where she registers as a self-employed entertainer. “It’s artistic expression. I provide a safe, consensual outlet in which to express a part of their psyches they have no other way to explore,” Donaghy said. “I adamantly believe that it’s healthy to explore this part of the psyche, because it doesn’t go away. It’s unhealthy to leave it unexplored. If it’s not explored, it can manifest itself in negative ways.” In the days since this began, Donaghy said she has not received a single negative comment or message from her neighborhood; neither the neighborhood association nor law enforcement have approached her in any way about it. “Numerous people in the neighborhood have called and expressed their support and their concern and their understanding,” Donaghy said. As the days passed and the fallout she feared would take place failed to materialize, Donaghy said she began to realize her very public position provided an educational opportunity. “I don’t hide this from my personal friends at all. In fact, I’ve worked very hard to help them understand this part of society that feels they have to live in fear. These people are in your government,” Donaghy said. “They are lawyers, accountants and doctors. They are decorated officers in our armed forces. I’ve had an Air Force colonel as a client. An Army captain, a Ranger. These are the faces of the people who do this. Highly educated, balanced, producing members of society have this deep need that they are afraid to tell anyone except me. All these people are really afraid. Many of them fear the judgement of society’s taboos. They fear they will lose their job, educational opportunities, custodial rights, the lives they have worked so hard to build. And yet they feel compelled to express their submission in the presence of a dominant woman they respect.” The profession is a lucrative one. She supports herself as a full-time domina (her preferred term; she dislikes the words “dominatrix” and “mistress”), first conducting phone interviews with potential clients before meeting them in person and charging handsome fees. Her approach, she said, mostly involves psychology and role-playing, and does not include whips or physical punishment — one of the reasons she was bothered by the addition of numerous whip-crack sound effects to the television report. “As a dominant woman, I get a high level of emotional and intellectual stimulation from the pure power exchange,” Donaghy said. “I don’t enjoy inflicting pain. It’s not a challenge to me. Conversely, I love the challenge of control. Using my mind and a structured setting. I do enjoy peering inside the psyche of my submissive and dissecting what’s inside. Learning his thoughts and weaknesses and seeing what I can do to help him become a better servant to women and deepen his understanding of the experience of women everywhere.” The television story referred to the D/S lifestyle as “a part of the psyche kept hidden in the shadows.” Donaghy began to realize that the outing provided a potential opportunity to change that image. “I will never lose my faith in humanity. Ever,” she said, fighting back tears. “If I do, then there is nothing left to live for. If I can, through my work, teach that honesty and education enrich the human spirit, then I feel like I’m doing the work of god. And that’s why I’m not ashamed … The person who told all those lies and slander about me and got all this going, perhaps she did all of us a favor. Because she brought this into the light for all to understand.” Right around this point she received a call from a client concerned about the potential fallout. Already she was considering the positive implications. “Good stuff is going to come of this in the end. You watch!” she assured him. Online resources: Miss Ann’s site, Manifesto and Mission Statement: www.TheReformatory.com

Crackpot alert!!! I thought Melyssa cared about "the people" not herself...she's a loon

If we could just go back for a moment, I'd like to take a quick stab at answering some questions posted earlier:

How many Deputy Mayors does Indianapolis have? (and, what is their salary?) There are currently three, with one having his own pet deputy (Deputy Deputy, sounds like something Joseph Heller would have thought of, but not as funny). The salary (Deputy Mayor salary only, doesn't count whatever other paid position that are sitting on, like Chairman of the Board of the Bond Bank, for example) is just over $97K annually, each, plus an alledged $85K for the Deputy Deputy.

Not sure why we need a Deputy Mayor of Public Affairs and Neighborhoods. The DMD is supposed to handle neighborhhod issues and if we really need a Deputy Mayor for Mouthpiece, then somethng is wrong somewhere. In the same vein, I'm not sure why we need a Deputy Mayor for Community Affairs. Seems to only require an middle level manager, not a Level 9 employee. I'm pretty darn sure that the Chief Deputy Mayor doesn't need a Deputy Chief of Staff, unless his other paid positions really put a crimp on his time at the "day" job. And what's up with 19 Police Department "officials" who have no job title and make between $63 and $90K each on an annual basis? The are three at $90K, five at $81K, and 11 at $63K. Maybe the Mayor needs a Deputy Mayor of Imagination to be at least able to come up with some plausible Job Titles for these people. I hereby volunteer to fill that position, and will even stoop to initially accepting a Level 8 salary for my "work".

How many are required by ordinance? City ordinance says "one (1) or more..." as determined by the Mayor (nice wording, if you can get it).

How many did Goldsmith have? Good question, that I cannot answer.

How many did Hudnut have? Same as above.

Lugar? How old do you think I am?

Who is driving a "tricked out car with custom paint jobs and grills?" Anybody driving an "Interceptor" has a tricked out car in my book, but I suppose that fancy wheels/grilles is what was meant. I'm sorry, but someone else will have to answer that as I don't travel in those circles, nor do I play golf.

Hope that helps.

Wilson...when I rode my bike throughout MK, Butler Tarkington, and Broadripple and drummed up that first 4th of July rally at the Governor's, do you really believe I hid who I am? I've never hidden who I am. The ladies in Meridian Kessler don't mind a bit.

It's so funny that you guys think my former career is news. It's been in the news for more than four years. I've linked the numerous news articles about my work from my website and spent good money over the years to promote my website! That's not the profile of someone embarassed or hiding.

The beauty of being "out" is that it allows one to own their own power. You think I'd ever give my power to dumpster divers? What do you take me for? Oh wait...you told me. You take me for an "ego maniac"!

Well, I've been called worse things. It's a good thing my therapist doesn't agree with your assessment. I'll take her word over yours.

You guys really need to think about how you look to the public. This is pretty childish stuff you do in the name of the democratic party.

And Jen especially should be ashamed. I thought you were an educated, enlightened, and modern woman! This is the 21st century! Aren't we as a society beyond misogynist witch hunts?

We're currently the 12th largest city in the nation. According to the city's mayoral website there are three deputy mayors and their small substaff. Google the mayor's offices of some of the cities that are comparable in size to Indy (San Francisco, Jacksonville Florida) and you'll find that our government here in the Circle City is quite lean.

I wish...this...would...all...go...away.

PPPPllleaseeee!

San Francisco. That's a good exemplar. Just because anybody else finds it expedient to follow a certain path, doesn't make it right or desirable in our case. That kind of lame excuse should have gone out with, "But MOM! Bobby gets to go outside and play! Why can't I? Please? Pretty Plu-eeeze? Mo-ommm!"

Considering what we seem to be getting in return, it's bloated to a considerable extent. It is the directors, controller and counsel that should be running with the ball.

Any other levels between them and the Mayor (and his single deputy) should be considered bureaucracy gone wild. It appears that the directors have to go through two levels of "gatekeeper" just to get the Mayor's attention. Somebody, is wasting the taxpayers time and money.

Oh, and maybe I'm counting wrong, but it appears that the Mayor's office is approved for a total of 16 FTE positions. Not counting the Policy people and the Charter School people (who really should be counted, IMO), I get a total of 28 FTE's in the Mayor's office. Somebody care to explain how my "math" is so off?

Melyssa -

You must be seeing the same therapist as my sister. All that's resulted from that is she's paid a lot of money to be thoroughly convinced that nothing she does is ever wrong. As for TDW, I'm thinking she really is a 21st century women. One who represents the best of what we tried to do in the last century. One who's not afraid to be a professional, a leader, a mom, AND A WOMAN rather than to be a childish, dominating, vindictive man-hater reminiscent of the woman's movement members that I knew in the 60's. You really need to get over these "daddy issues" and your illegitimate childhood and find a therapist who'll help you learn to live with the rest of the world instead of preaching that you're the Queen of Everything!

Nope...I'm not a man hater. Why do you think I have such a huge army of guys who help me accomplish these tasks? You ever read what the cops say about me? You think they would hang with me if I was a man hater?

Jen, your hatred is eating you alive. Perhaps your time might be better spent judging yourself rather than attempting to make psychological assessments of others without the education and the credentials necessary to do it.

"You catch more flies with, sugar". It's time to take your own advice Jen. You make yourself and your party look petty, ignorant, hypocritical, hateful, misogynistic, and childish.


In politics, ya gotta have thick skins. Some people who get into politics learn that lesson, some don't. Those who don't can't take the heat.

So Melyssa, my advice is to take a step back, focus on what you're trying to accomplish, whether some people agree or disagree, and let the rest go...

This is so much about her own self-importance that she can't help herself. And it's so much fun playing with people like this.

"I thought you were an educated, enlightened, and modern woman!"

You're one confusing lady, Melyssa.

Yesterday, I was "an incompetent power hungry bitch" that you were going knock out of the way.

Here's a hint: No one cares about your former career. No one cares about your personal life. No one cares about your past problems. No one cares about your little feud with the Mayor. Get a frickin' grip, followed by a clue. If you want to help on the property tax issue, you have to get past yourself.

I think I can take the heat. I just want to make it perfectly clear that you will not push me around...ever. Got that? It's obvious the work I'm doing is getting to you and you feel threatened by it. My intent was never to threaten you.

Politics is never an excuse to be rude to people. You'd be wise to learn that lesson. You'll catch more flies with sugar.

ooooooooo---ooooooohh...

Your comment from yesterday:

"“This isn't my first go round with an incompetent power hungry bitch. I've knocked a few out of the way of people they are harming and you will be no different.”

Your comment from today:

"Politics is never an excuse to be rude to people. You'd be wise to learn that lesson. You'll catch more flies with sugar."

Ever heard that old one about practicing and preaching?

Can we get back to talking about property taxes? You bore me.

Jen, I think you might be wrong here. While YOU might not be fixated on Melyssa's former career, obviously there is some real, and seemingly intense interest here (at least by one or three posters).

I would suggest that they quit beating around the bush and just ask Melyssa (very politely, I'd imagine) if she does charity work.

Even if the nice folks at Angie's List don't care if Melyssa blogs all day, isn't it ironic that the CEO of Angie's List was Mitch Daniel's campaign manager and still-close friend? The campaign even shared part of the Angie's List offices for the duration, rent free. That's probably why you only hear nice things about Mitch from her.

Here's a joke that's been going around for years: How do you know when Miss Ann is on a megalomanic jag? She's typing.

See? I think some people just want to use Melyssa as a distraction from addressing anything substantive.

Let's try that again: Property taxes, anyone?

Melyssa's successfully turned her Tea Party into a Pity Party. Let's move on.

Jen, again take your own advice. Solve this property tax crisis and quit focusing on me! Rally people around your party and the answers you bring! May your wisdom and your party save Indiannapolis from economic ruin, arsons, high taxes, and crime!

By the way...I'm posting three more sales at my 100% commission job while I "blog".

Good thing there are so many notes on a piano keyboard. Melyssa's changing her tune again.

I'm pretty sure Angie's List would not be happy to find you connecting your job there with your online political activism. But I could be wrong.

Peace out, lady.

You know, if you two can't play nice, then I'd bet money that a face-off in sumo suits would end up SRO in just about any medium-sized venue you'd care to name.

Then, you could split the proceeds for your favorite projects.

;)

In case you haven't noticed, TDW has been playing very nicely and trying very hard to keep us tuned into the Property Tax Show instead of the "I Am the Sunshine of My Life Hour"

Do you people not have jobs?

But, like a terrier, she refuses to just let it go...

Property taxes. I hope Senator Kenley's group can decide on some positive ideas. I'm just not going to hold my breath. Change is hard enough, but radical change - oh my.

There are some short term mitigations available. The current administration just can't seem to get their collective heads around the "pain" (for them) it might cause.

Forgive me if I think that this has been blown way far out of proportion. Our tax rates aren't all that bad. Sure, we need to cut spending and yes, we need to rethink business assessments and make some accommodations for people whose homes have appreciated at a rate that far outstrips inflation and income. But seriously, what did people think market based meant???

Just that. Market-based.

Not assessor opinion.

Not assessor guesstimate.

Not poor application of "trending" math.

Not several other things that are purely my own opinion, and not necessarily polite.

One thing that would help immensely -- but be expensive to implement -- would be to tie the assessment system into property records and real estate listings.

The trouble is all this ridiculous marching and teabagging and shit is distracting from the issue which ISN'T property tax rates, but rather inaccurate methods of assessment.

"We're currently the 12th largest city in the nation."

Not even close.

"One thing that would help immensely -- but be expensive to implement -- would be to tie the assessment system into property records and real estate listings."

That's idiotic. A sale can be structured to avoid tax liability.

Property assessment at market value for taxation purposes aint exactly rocket science. It's brand new for Indiana but somehow it manages to get done satisfactorily in all the other states that have been doing for years now. We are on the learning curve in Indiana in this transition period.

Despair ye not, oh ye of little faith! Us Hoosiers will get it right in a little while, just like they have in most other states...

You can find an exception to every rule, 7:46, but having that information would be better than what we have now, which is largely guesswork in some areas.

I'm not saying assessors would have to use that information as the only arbiter of their assessments, but it sure would help to have a second opinion, wouldn't it?

"We're currently the 12th largest city in the nation."

Not even close.


My bad - used 2005 census - now we're thirteenth - that's plenty close:

http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/us-cities-largest-2007.html#Anchor-The-49575

"One thing that would help immensely -- but be expensive to implement -- would be to tie the assessment system into property records and real estate listings."

Shouldn't be too expensive - the star already has a database for some counties based upon the sales info. that is required to be provided to assessors when a property is sold.

What's surprising is how they didn't even use that information in a lot of cases. I've done several residential deals over the last couple years in MC and they clearly weren't reflected in the new assessed values.

So TDW - after throwing out the 90% Melissa tit for tat exchanges - any overall comment on the other replies to your question ? did the rest of us have a "calm discussion about the issue at hand and how to solve it?"

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